If it took Horvat + 6th to acquire 2014 1st pick, would ya?

[Betamax]

No I proved to you Horvat was a 1C in junior but you've got blinders on.

What I've established is it's possible for teams w/ depth to have multiple no.1 centers & other weak teams to have none. Case in point, my Forsberg-Sakic example. Please tell me which of those guys weren't a 1C. I'd love to know.

You're delusional if you think you proved your point. No one, other than over zealous Canucks fans would claim Horvat was a 1C either this past season or during his draft year.

No one says Horvat is even close to the same class as Forsberg. So I don't get why you're throwing his name around in the first place. Ridiculous.

Again you avoid the question. Answer it and stop trying to cloud the issue.

You said Francis was a true no.1 C but he played behind Lemieux. He scored far less pts than Lemieux. By your definition he's not a 1C.

You're the one comparing Reinhart to Francis.
What say you?

Uh, Ron (Franchise) Francis had a pretty good career going on before he linked up with Mario. There was a team called the Hartford Whalers, ICYMI. Since you seems to have followed hockey like in the past decade, that's probably new to you.

Just because he played behind Mario doesn't lessen his status as a 1C. I mean do you do that with Datsyuk and Zetteberg?

[Betamax]

The best example to refute the whole 1C argument that Beta is making is to point to Canada's Olympic team this year.

Crosby was the undisputed 1C.

His offensive production was behind 3 other centers: Carter, Marleau, and Toews.

Ryan Getzlaf was the 3rd line center, he was tied with Crosby for points.

A small sample size, but it makes the point.

Regardless, I don't know that I would consider Bo a top C, he's more of a 1B from the stats I've seen and the very small sampling of games I have watched him in.

Mëds, your "point" is there is one to your post is more akin to refuting the one made by IN:

Or maybe It refutes.....

Uh, not really ... since I think your point of bringing the Olympics in the first place was their mantra of putting players fora specific roles. ICYMI, Carter and Marleau for that matter, were not used as at centre in the tournament. They were brought in because they had the ability to play wing. Also, they did pad their points against weaker opposition while I remember The Golden Kid and The Guy That Exposes Teams' for who they really are ... scored the key clutch goals in the Gold Medal Game.

via: http://www.thestar.com/sports/sochi2014 ... mpics.html

PROJECTED LINEUP

Forwards

Chris Kunitz—Sidney Crosby—Patrice Bergeron

Jamie Benn—Ryan Getzlaf—Corey Perry

Patrick Marleau—Jonathan Toews—Jeff Carter

Patrick Sharp—Matt Duchene—Rick Nash / Martin St. Louis

Also, it's a bit problematic to use essentially an All-Star team for role defining , that's why it's better to use examples from the club team ... like what we see with the Canucks where any rational individual defines Hank as a 1C and Kes as a 2C (even after Kes went #BEASTMODE for short period of time during the 2011 Playoffs).

Regardless, I was throwing IN a bone, my opinion of Horvat is probably closer in line with yours. He's not a #1 center. Hopefully he can mature and develop into a 1B option, but if he turns into a solid #2C who can PK and is responsible at both ends of the ice, then that's great too.

via: https://twitter.com/botchford/status/476752100341211136

Jason Botchford ‏@botchford

@GoFour3 delorme stays and horvat's upside is seen as a 2L C and he will make the team this fall, unless he comes to camp 70 lbs overweight

8:45 AM - 11 Jun 2014

Basically, that's the Canucks' viewpoint on what they see Horvat as being if he reaches his "potential."

[Meds]

Regardless, I was throwing IN a bone, my opinion of Horvat is probably closer in line with yours. He's not a #1 center. Hopefully he can mature and develop into a 1B option, but if he turns into a solid #2C who can PK and is responsible at both ends of the ice, then that's great too.

Its not that anyone is saying Bo is going to be a 1C but for Beta to suggest he wasn't in junior is ludicrous. His own definition of a 1C is all over the map.

Beta is all over the map.

[Betamax]

Regardless, I was throwing IN a bone, my opinion of Horvat is probably closer in line with yours. He's not a #1 center. Hopefully he can mature and develop into a 1B option, but if he turns into a solid #2C who can PK and is responsible at both ends of the ice, then that's great too.

Its not that anyone is saying Bo is going to be a 1C but for Beta to suggest he wasn't in junior is ludicrous. His own definition of a 1C is all over the map.

Beta is all over the map.

It's pretty clear Bo wasn't/is a 1C in junior. The objective stats support my opinion. The only people that would say he is ... would also say that Kesler is a 1C in the NHL because he has a higher ATOI, is an "All Situations Player" and ergo, is "more valuable" than Hank, but the fact of the matter is, everyone defines Hank as a 1C and Kes a 2C for the Canucks. I've never heard anyone say Kes is/was a 1C.

Unless you are saying it here for the first time.

[ClamRussel]

No I proved to you Horvat was a 1C in junior but you've got blinders on.

What I've established is it's possible for teams w/ depth to have multiple no.1 centers & other weak teams to have none. Case in point, my Forsberg-Sakic example. Please tell me which of those guys weren't a 1C. I'd love to know.

You're delusional if you think you proved your point. No one, other than over zealous Canucks fans would claim Horvat was a 1C either this past season or during his draft year.

No one says Horvat is even close to the same class as Forsberg. So I don't get why you're throwing his name around in the first place. Ridiculous.

Again you avoid the question. Answer it and stop trying to cloud the issue.

You said Francis was a true no.1 C but he played behind Lemieux. He scored far less pts than Lemieux. By your definition he's not a 1C.

You're the one comparing Reinhart to Francis.
What say you?

Uh, Ron (Franchise) Francis had a pretty good career going on before he linked up with Mario. There was a team called the Hartford Whalers, ICYMI. Since you seems to have followed hockey like in the past decade, that's probably new to you.

Just because he played behind Mario doesn't lessen his status as a 1C. I mean do you do that with Datsyuk and Zetteberg?

Well therein lies the problem in your definition and argument.
I'm out.

[Betamax]

Well therein lies the problem in your definition and argument.
I'm out.

Uh, NO ... Francis had already proven himself as a 1C before he joined forces with Mario and didn't piggyback on having playing behind him to establish said track record.

You're like saying if Carmello Anthony joins forces with Lebron this off-season, he is no longer a superstar because he now plays second fiddle.

Nonsense. Can we get serious?

[Cousin Strawberry]

Can we get serious?

Can't you consolidate down to one personality? Seriously?

I'm not even saying that in a way that should be taken as an insult...I vote for FL...he's my favorite of your aliases

[Island Nucklehead]

It's pretty clear Bo wasn't/is a 1C in junior. The objective stats support my opinion. The only people that would say he is ...

How about his head coach? Hunter on Horvat

The Vancouver Canucks drafted London Knights centre Bo Horvat with the ninth overall selection in the 2013 NHL Entry Draft. Horvat’s head coach in London? None other than former NHL star, Dale Hunter.

“He is an all-rounded player that plays in all situations for us (London),” said Hunter, who was named head coach of Canada’s U18 program last week. “He plays the power-play, and he kills penalties. As a 17-year-old, it doesn’t happen very often where you go to the Memorial Cup and he is your number one centreman down the middle. For a 17-year-old kid that is quite an accomplishment, playing against guys like (Jets prospect Mark) Scheifele he did a great job and scored clutch goals for us.

Enough with your horse-shit.

Tell me DALE HUNTER is WRONG.

[Betamax]

It's pretty clear Bo wasn't/is a 1C in junior. The objective stats support my opinion. The only people that would say he is ...

How about his head coach? Hunter on Horvat

The Vancouver Canucks drafted London Knights centre Bo Horvat with the ninth overall selection in the 2013 NHL Entry Draft. Horvat’s head coach in London? None other than former NHL star, Dale Hunter.

“He is an all-rounded player that plays in all situations for us (London),” said Hunter, who was named head coach of Canada’s U18 program last week. “He plays the power-play, and he kills penalties. As a 17-year-old, it doesn’t happen very often where you go to the Memorial Cup and he is your number one centreman down the middle. For a 17-year-old kid that is quite an accomplishment, playing against guys like (Jets prospect Mark) Scheifele he did a great job and scored clutch goals for us.

Enough with your horse-shit.

Tell me DALE HUNTER is WRONG.

Uh, let's see during the 2013 season, Bo had a strong Playoffs run with some timely goals that made him MVP that likely moved him up the draft order up to the spot where the Canucks took him in the Top 10. Why wouldn't it surprise anyone that DALE HUNTER would be pumping his tires when asked about him right after being drafted by the team that is asking the question? Duh?

2013 Playoffs:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leag ... 42013.html

Max Domi 21games 11goals 21assists 32pts
Bo Horvat 21games 16goals 7assists 23pts

It doesn't seem that Bo was able to replicate his Playoffs success, a year older.

Now if you are going to quote DALE HUNTER, here's another quote from said individual on Bo:

“Bo reminds me a lot of David
Bolland Hunter said of his one-time Knights’ teammate. “They
bring the same thing to each of their teams.
They can both be a shutdown forward or
they can go out and play the power play
and get you a big goal. Either way, they’re
both valuable guys to have on the ice in any
situation.

via: http://www.redlinereport.com/wp-content ... Dec-12.pdf

Now, I don't think anyone here believes Bolland is even a 2C in the NHL but a good 3C on a decent NHL club.

For reference, here are Bolland's numbers:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdis ... ?pid=71780

How do they compare to what Bo has done thus far?

[Art Vandelay]

It's pretty clear Bo wasn't/is a 1C in junior. The objective stats support my opinion. The only people that would say he is ...

How about his head coach? Hunter on Horvat

The Vancouver Canucks drafted London Knights centre Bo Horvat with the ninth overall selection in the 2013 NHL Entry Draft. Horvat’s head coach in London? None other than former NHL star, Dale Hunter.

“He is an all-rounded player that plays in all situations for us (London),” said Hunter, who was named head coach of Canada’s U18 program last week. “He plays the power-play, and he kills penalties. As a 17-year-old, it doesn’t happen very often where you go to the Memorial Cup and he is your number one centreman down the middle. For a 17-year-old kid that is quite an accomplishment, playing against guys like (Jets prospect Mark) Scheifele he did a great job and scored clutch goals for us.

Enough with your horse-shit.

Tell me DALE HUNTER is WRONG.

Another day another beating. Island Nucklehead is effortless bootfucking Betasox all over the boards. I mean wtf would Dale Hunter know about anything?

[Betamax]

Another day another beating. Island Nucklehead is effortless bootfucking Betasox all over the boards. I mean wtf would Dale Hunter know about anything?

Another day, and the non-factor™ has his pom poms out, with the obligatory rah rah post, supporting his man, Island Nucklehead.

Nothing new.

[Art Vandelay]

Nothing new.

You got that right it is nothing new. Your asshole must be raw because you sir have been violated repeatedly by this poster.

[Betamax]

Nothing new.

You got that right it is nothing new. Your asshole must be raw because you sir have been violated repeatedly by this poster.

You are not a very nice person. Ya big meanie! Doesn't surprise me you cut off the rest of my quote ... since it cuts to the core of your raison d'être on this board ... i.e. non-factor™.

[Betamax]

via: http://canucksarmy.com/2014/3/10/reason ... -a-top-6-c

Reasonable Expectations For The Future: Is Bo Horvat A Top-6 C?
That's Offside!
March 10 2014 10:54AM

The article paints a rather bleak outlook (relative to the hype and supports Bo has garnered by the "Canucks' fanatics") at Bo's prospect to produce as a 2C at the next level. I'd love to see the BoLievers here (see what I did there), desconstruct the arguments made in said article.

Anyway, here are its conclusions:

Reasonable Expectations

Bo Horvat will, by all accounts, be an NHL player. He's a very good CHL'er and possesses a skill set that is fawned over by NHL GMs. When prognosticating these sorts of things, though, we need to evaluate what the most likely outcome is moving forward. For Horvat, the most likely route his career takes sees him topping out as a decent 3rd line C, scoring in the mid-40s in points just once or twice, and finishing his career having played for 4 or 5 different teams. Even then, he probably won't be ready to step into that 3rd line role and be effective for another 3-4 years after this one. Nothing he's done in junior screams "I'm ready" for full-time NHL duty, and most players spend significant time apprenticing in the AHL anyways.

I personally think it's a bit harsh assessment of Bo's future outlook, but, when I hear Kuzma (who isn't exactly a shit disturber member of the MSM) quote several scouts that question Bo's ability to translate his offense to the next level, coupled with his modest past season performance... it's not exactly the slam dunk that optimistic Canucks' Nation fan base has been touting him out to be i.e. the next Bergeron/Kesler.

I hope I'm dead wrong and he, like Kesler is an outlier and he breaks through the statistical projections that he's just going to be a decent "3C" and become much more than that. Time will unravel everything.

[Hockey Widow]

^^^^^
Well if thats the case one would have to wonder why Florida would even want him. I mean I assume they have access to the same scouting reports we do right? Sounds like it would be a steal to dump Horvat on them and take that first pick and run.