What type of change should the Canucks implement?

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What type of change should the Canucks implement?

Reset - [Change some core piece(s) but with the goal next season of competing for the Stanley Cup]
3
14%
Rebuild - [Change their "stale" core pieces for younger Prospect(s)/Pick(s) to compete for the Stanley Cup in a few years]
7
33%
None of the Above - [Please Explain with a written reply to this thread]
11
52%
 
Total votes: 21

Betamax
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Re: What type of change should the Canucks implement?

Post by Betamax »

RoyalDude wrote:In all seriousness, these players need to go;

Hansen - Steve Bernier stone hands inability to finish on glorious offensive opportunities. Can't stand it anymore. Not nasty enough, big enough to be a good bottom 6, not skilled enough to be a top 6. His tweener'ism will not sit well with Benning and Lindens desire for players having defined roles.

Higgins - To nice for the type of player we need in his position. A tweener. What is he? Not prototypical 3rd liner, not prototypical top 2 line player. If he was bigger, faster and played with some real piss and vinegar, he's a keeper. Totally disappears in the games that count. Come playoffs, you need a road map to find Higgins. His tweener'ism will not sit well with Benning and Lindens desire for players having defined roles.

Booth - Nothing to add here
It wouldn't surprise me to see two out of the three are not with the team by the end of next season. Booth is in purgatory in that they can make a case for keeping him for one more season since he has no trade value unless you want to retain about 1/2 his AAV and you'd probably just get a late pick anyway and ownership probably isn't too keen on more buyouts. One of Hansen/Higgins could be packaged up in a bigger deal as a complimentary piece.
Garrison - What a waste of money. No edge, lumbering. If he could move with the puck out of danger like Tanev instead of constantly standing flat footed, he'd be a player. Hard shot but the accuracy is Jiri Slegr proportions "DUCK!" No edge. What does he bring? Other than he's a good guy like Higgins and he's from White Rock! YAY!
Of the three D vets with NTCs (Bieksa, Hamhuis, Garrison) ... I could see one of them being moved over the next couple of seasons. Garrison or Hamhuis would be my picks. Hamhuis more because of demand for him and a TDL type deal to a SC contender if the Canucks aren't in a position to make Playoffs.
Schroeder - Just not enough Brenden Gallagher from him to stick.
Yeah, if he's qualified and signs, I wouldn't be surprised if he is somehow either traded later on next season or put on waivers.
If no trades are made with the core, here is what Benning should work from from last year

The Sedins
Burrows
Kesler
Kassian
Richardson
Sestito
Jensen

Edler
Hamhius
Bieksa
Stanton
Tanev
Corrado

lack
Markstrom

Our offense is in the most need of help all over, duh. On Defense we need to add some grit and muscle, net clearing presence and a proper PP QB on D, it's not in great shape either, not as bad as our forward group, but almost.

Not sure what to make of Santorelli. His tweener-ism may not suit Bennings Mission here of a straight forward two offensive lines and more ruggedness and biggerness on the bottom 6.
No changes to the core is not an option. The Canucks' need to make at least one major change to their core before the season begins. That either Kesler (most likely) or Edler ... or both.

I could envision a scenario that both are packaged in a mega deal. The team? The Bruins for obvious reasons.

Kesler is probably the one Canucks that embodies the "Bruins" model of a player. There was reported interest in Edler by the Bruins which was contingent (allegedly) on Kesler also being moved to another team.

The return? How about Loui Eriksson and a package that includes one of their top prospects like Khokhlachev and a maybe their 2014 1st round draft pick (26th overall).
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Re: What type of change should the Canucks implement?

Post by Betamax »

re: Behind the B | Episode 1



Botchford's summary/analysis on Benning, specifically for those who don't want to subject themselves into skimming through 43:38 of watching Bruins' personnel.

Botchford: Get to know the new Canucks GM

TV series Behind the B sheds some light on Jim Benning, who appears to be on his way to Vancouver
By Jason Botchford, The Province May 21, 2014

via: http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Botch ... story.html

From said article:
In 14 episodes it was everything the Canucks haven’t been publicly in recent memory.

Good thing too, because, let’s face it, not a lot is known about Benning, the general manager.

Will he be aggressive? How will he deal with Canucks ownership? Is he willing to take one big step back to move this team three steps forward? Can he accurately assess the Canucks core?

In the first episode of Behind the B in September, Benning was something of a scene-stealing star while in a meeting with the Bruins brain trust. The brass was filmed doing some forensics on the idea of moving on from Andrew Ference and trading Tyler Seguin.

In the clip, Benning acknowledged he loves Ference, and said he has been a “warrior for us” but coldly shrugged nine times while saying it.

“We have to move on,” said Benning, blunty.

It was some icy detachment, and yes, the Canucks could use a few quarts of it.
On the Seguin deal:
Then, the discussion came around to Seguin, and it appeared by the time of the meeting the trade was inevitable.

Benning was more biting that time, which played into the notion that he was influential in the decision to trade Seguin.

When GM Chiarelli pointed out Seguin is basically a 35-40 goal-a-season player, Benning didn’t flinch.

“Basically, what we’re deciding is, we’re keeping our other core guys,” Benning said.

Someone off camera then said: “We need some speed.”

Benning started rolling his eyes.

“Yeah, we’ll miss his speed,” Benning said drolly. “In the regular season, we’ll miss his speed.

“We’re winning every year. We’re not babysitting.”

Disdain and authority just oozes from him. With his arms crossed and his shoulder shrugs, Benning has an “I’m not putting up with crap” aura. That may help when the oft-meddling Aquillini family starts knocking on his door. Daily.

It was a pretty great moment, even if Benning and the Bruins got it wrong on Seguin. They didn’t get nearly enough back for a 22-year-old centre who just put up 84 points in 80 games. Did I say he’s 22?

And, oh yeah, they absolutely missed his speed in that second-round playoff loss to the Montreal Canadiens.

You can use this as a critique of Benning, if you’re so inclined. But here’s the thing with NHL executives: They’re going to make mistakes. If you want the Canucks general manager to be bold, sometimes the bold move will be a grand slam and every once in a while it will be a Seguin trade.
Benning didn't explicitly talk about "bold" moves but he seems like the guy that would let his actions speak for him. So, if history is a predictor on what may happen to the future ... I think a couple of the vets' and "core" members of the team will be sent packing.

What say you? 8-)
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Re: What type of change should the Canucks implement?

Post by Betamax »

Betamax wrote:Benning didn't explicitly talk about "bold" moves but he seems like the guy that would let his actions speak for him. So, if history is a predictor on what may happen to the future ... I think a couple of the vets' and "core" members of the team will be sent packing.

What say you? 8-)
On this issue ... we had former GM, Michael D. Gillis show some bravado and talk the talk about making "bold" moves but his lack of action when it came to those type of moves spoke much louder than his words.

I can count on one hand the "bold" moves Michael D. Gillis completed during his tenure. One, the UFA 2 year/20M offer to get Mats' attention and subsequent signing of Sundin. Two, the Ballard trade which turned into a clusterfuck. Three, Cody for Zach. Four, trading their franchise goalie, The Cory after completely mis-managing the goaltending situation.

Sundin was more like hitting a single ........
Ballard was striking out badly ........
Cody for Zach is still pending ........
Trading The Cory for Bo is still pending ........

None of these Bold moves has yet to shown to be franchise changers for the positive. Although having Sundin as a "mentor" for most of one season was, OKAY.

What say you? 8-)
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Re: What type of change should the Canucks implement?

Post by SKYO »

Betamax wrote: Sundin was more like hitting a single ........
Ballard was striking out badly ........
Cody for Zach is still pending ........
Trading The Cory for Bo is still pending ........
Cody for Zach is like hitting a bunt and forever waiting to see if its in play or out of bounds ......
Cory for Bo not even up to bat yet .......
Can the Canucks just win a Cup within the next 5 years.
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Re: What type of change should the Canucks implement?

Post by Strangelove »

Betamax wrote: **GIANT GRAPH**

What say you? 8-)
Ummmm... as YOURS TRULY previously stated...

Unlike other teams, YOUR Vancouver Canucks didn't have the DEPTH to withstand so many injuries.

Also, it must be pointed out that your graph FAILS insofar as reflecting the PLAYING HURT FACTOR.

For example, Alex Burrows: A MAIN COG IN THE FIRST LINE WHEEL.

And, Jason Garrison, allegedly troubled with a major GROIN INJURY all season.

G-G-G-G-G-G- GROIN INJURY!!!

I might also point out the fact that players playing above their pay-grade messes with YOUR graph

... but no need.

The defense rests. :mex:
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Re: What type of change should the Canucks implement?

Post by Betamax »

Strangelove wrote:
Betamax wrote: **GIANT GRAPH**

What say you? 8-)
Ummmm... as YOURS TRULY previously stated...

Unlike other teams, YOUR Vancouver Canucks didn't have the DEPTH to withstand so many injuries.

Also, it must be pointed out that your graph FAILS insofar as reflecting the PLAYING HURT FACTOR.

For example, Alex Burrows: A MAIN COG IN THE FIRST LINE WHEEL.

And, Jason Garrison, allegedly troubled with a major GROIN INJURY all season.

G-G-G-G-G-G- GROIN INJURY!!!
Uh, so are you blaming Michael D. Gillis for the Canucks' inability to withstand their injury "issues."

And/or are you blaming Fonzie for the "Shot Blocking Mentality" that he tried to instill on your Canucks which by COINCIDENCE (or NOT) ... led to two players injuring themselves early on into their campaign to the point of being put on the IR which, BTW, included none other than "Alex Burrows: A MAIN COG IN THE FIRST LINE WHEEL."
I might also point out the fact that players playing above their pay-grade messes with YOUR graph

... but no need.

The defense rests. :mex:
What exactly was that point? Which player are you referring to? Mike S., the guy that was penciled in to be a bottom six, depth player before the season began?
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Re: What type of change should the Canucks implement?

Post by Betamax »

SKYO wrote:
Betamax wrote: Sundin was more like hitting a single ........
Ballard was striking out badly ........
Cody for Zach is still pending ........
Trading The Cory for Bo is still pending ........
Cody for Zach is like hitting a bunt and forever waiting to see if its in play or out of bounds ......
Cory for Bo not even up to bat yet .......
That's the problem with the last two moves ... The Canucks were in the midst or a year off coming off a Presidents' Trophy season and the two last "bold" moves by Michael D. Gillis made was for "futures" and not for the present when the Canucks' still were considered contenders.
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Re: What type of change should the Canucks implement?

Post by Rumsfeld »

The way I see it Gillis had an excellent first three years, then a mediocre year, followed by two shitty ones.

No GMs are going to have a flawless run over that period of time. The Schneider/Luongo debacle has really tainted Saddlebag's legacy, and deservedly so.
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Re: What type of change should the Canucks implement?

Post by Betamax »

Rumsfeld wrote:The way I see it Gillis had an excellent first three years, then a mediocre year, followed by two shitty ones.

No GMs are going to have a flawless run over that period of time. The Schneider/Luongo debacle has really tainted Saddlebag's legacy, and deservedly so.
Yeah, Michael D. Gillis made some very effective moves in the first few years to support the existing core (that he bashed) in his introduction as the GM ... but when the landscape changed, unlike teams like the Blackhawks or Bruins, he couldn't adapt to those changes nor was he effective at making timely "bold" moves that he stated he was going to do. 8-)
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Re: What type of change should the Canucks implement?

Post by Chef Boi RD »

Michael D Gillis got completely confused after the Cup loss in 2011, when adversity set in and had to actually work unlike when he first got here inheriting a team with a fantastic core about to hit their prime. He completely dropped the ball, had no idea what kind of team he wanted. Had way too many tweeners, those guys not good enough to be legitimate top 6 and not comfortable pkaying the affective bottom 6'er. Eye bags when hit with adversity dropped the ball big time. Definitely not a very good team builder, should have removed himself and made like Lowe, Burkie, Shanny, Neely and Trevl Linden and become team president
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
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Re: What type of change should the Canucks implement?

Post by Chef Boi RD »

In this day and age you need your very good top 6, very good bottom 6 forward grouping who know their roles and stick to that role. You need a solid pp QB, some nasty defense presence. Smart players who can play a team game, very good without the puck, the 200 foot game and a possess a solid puck possession game and can cycle the puck. Loads of character, stick up for each other not constantly take stupid penalties. A pro off the ice, good conditioning and preparedness, students of the game, coachable. D who are mobile and can move the puck out of danger and depth, depth, depth and a heavy presence of youth and the energy they bring to ebb the staleness that older teams can be, and good goaltending and coaching
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
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Re: What type of change should the Canucks implement?

Post by Rumsfeld »

RoyalDude wrote:Michael D Gillis got completely confused after the Cup loss in 2011, when adversity set in and had to actually work unlike when he first got here inheriting a team with a fantastic core about to hit their prime. He completely dropped the ball, had no idea what kind of team he wanted. Had way too many tweeners, those guys not good enough to be legitimate top 6 and not comfortable pkaying the affective bottom 6'er. Eye bags when hit with adversity dropped the ball big time. Definitely not a very good team builder, should have removed himself and made like Lowe, Burkie, Shanny, Neely and Trevl Linden and become team president
I agree that he started losing his way after the Boston series... weren't you ragging on him way before the Cup run though?
In this day and age you need your very good top 6, very good bottom 6 forward grouping who know their roles and stick to that role. You need a solid pp QB, some nasty defense presence. Smart players who can play a team game, very good without the puck, the 200 foot game and a possess a solid puck possession game and can cycle the puck. Loads of character, stick up for each other not constantly take stupid penalties. A pro off the ice, good conditioning and preparedness, students of the game, coachable. D who are mobile and can move the puck out of danger and depth, depth, depth and a heavy presence of youth and the energy they bring to ebb the staleness that older teams can be, and good goaltending and coaching
Oh is that it? :lol:

Anyway yeah, we can try to patch the numerous holes in this leaky canoe or we can start building a new yacht.
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Re: What type of change should the Canucks implement?

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

So easy to shit on someone from their first day on the job . Eventually everyone gets fired and the dude can say I told you so .
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Re: What type of change should the Canucks implement?

Post by Chef Boi RD »

I like Benning, he's a talent evaluator unlike Gillis who before getting here was only good at raping GMs by getting good contracts for his hockey players.

I have complete faith in Benning. It's refreshing to see a GM without the Gillis 'I am great' arrogance.
“Tyler Myers is my guy... I was taking to Scotty Bowman last night and he was bringing up his name, and saying he’s a big guy and big guy need big minutes to play, he is playing great for ya… and I agree with him… He’s been exceptional” - Bruce Boudreau
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Re: What type of change should the Canucks implement?

Post by Strangelove »

Betamax wrote:
Strangelove wrote:
Betamax wrote: **GIANT GRAPH**

What say you? 8-)
Ummmm... as YOURS TRULY previously stated...

Unlike other teams, YOUR Vancouver Canucks didn't have the DEPTH to withstand so many injuries.

Also, it must be pointed out that your graph FAILS insofar as reflecting the PLAYING HURT FACTOR.

For example, Alex Burrows: A MAIN COG IN THE FIRST LINE WHEEL.

And, Jason Garrison, allegedly troubled with a major GROIN INJURY all season.

G-G-G-G-G-G- GROIN INJURY!!!
Uh, so are you blaming Michael D. Gillis for the Canucks' inability to withstand their injury "issues."
Well ole Mikey FAILED to provide DEPTH amirite?
Betamax wrote: And/or are you blaming Fonzie for the "Shot Blocking Mentality" that he tried to instill on your Canucks which by COINCIDENCE (or NOT) ... led to two players injuring themselves early on into their campaign to the point of being put on the IR
Now how the HELL could anyone blame a guy for a "COINCIDENCE"?? :lol:

Burrows was injured at the very end of a 5-on-3 PK.

He was stuck out there for the ENTIRE TWO MINUTES!!

He blocked the kind of shot that a top penalty-killer HAS TO BLOCK in the game of hockey.

Torts had nothing to do with it

(Burrows would have blocked that shot if YOU were the coach).

And if the other guy was Schroeder in pre-season, well he was caught in nowhereland and then turned his foot.

Rookies EH? :wink:
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