Could part of it be?

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volsungr
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Could part of it be?

Post by volsungr »

This is Torts 12th year as a head coach in the NHL, and as far as I know the first year he was told to tone down his post/pre game conversations ect. Maybe part of the way the passion comes out of him for the game and winning (excluding the Flames game) just does not translate to the players the way it did with other teams when in the past.

Just some thoughts.

Tom
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Re: Could part of it be?

Post by Mr.Miyagi »

Sure...part of it could be the limit that management has put on Torts. I would go further by saying that the likit Torts has put on the players is affecting the team's success more.

The preaching about "structure", in hindsight, probably wasn't the most effective means of tightening up a veteran team's style of play. The team had relative success the first half of the season but as it wore on and the new coaching staff's influence became more prevalent it started to deteriorate the team we have all been familiar with.

I think Torts and co.'s systen wouldd be more beneficial to a younger, rawer team. Trying to preach dump and chase, grind it out hockey to a team built around historically offensive players hasn't worked out as planned.

I was 100% open minded about Torts coming in. I supported the change but let's face it...it isn't working out.

Management has a hard choice to make now. Do you build a team around a coaching staff or do you try to salvage the core and build around an idea of a new system and attitude? Personally, I would lean towards letting the veterans play and hopefully find a candidate that can work with the core, not against them.
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Re: Could part of it be?

Post by Topper »

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Re: Could part of it be?

Post by mathonwy »

Mr.Miyagi wrote:
Management has a hard choice to make now. Do you build a team around a coaching staff or do you try to salvage the core and build around an idea of a new system and attitude? Personally, I would lean towards letting the veterans play and hopefully find a candidate that can work with the core, not against them.
The reality is, the vets have had recent success. You can not deny the trophies won a couple/few years ago.

You can not say the same about Torts. Torts wore out his welcome in NY (you will find the Rags fanbase extremely divided on Torts) and he seems to have worn out his welcome here in Vancouver.

Whether or not he's been responsible for any of the shitty things that have happened this season is really besides the point. He is the coach of arguably the worst season in Vancouver Canuck history. Yeah yeah yeah... I'm a drama queen... and so what. I'm pissed off that my team is in shambles and I know it wasn't like this before Torts came to town.
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Re: Could part of it be?

Post by Mr.Miyagi »

mathonwy wrote:
Whether or not he's been responsible for any of the shitty things that have happened this season is really besides the point. He is the coach of arguably the worst season in Vancouver Canuck history. Yeah yeah yeah... I'm a drama queen... and so what. I'm pissed off that my team is in shambles and I know it wasn't like this before Torts came to town.
No arguements here. As a fan and supporter if the team you have every right to be frustrated. I think it's great to be part of a fan base that has high expectations for their team year in and year out. I wouldn't want it any other way.
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Re: Could part of it be?

Post by Topper »

mathonwy wrote:I'm pissed off that my team is in shambles and I know it wasn't like this before Torts came to town.
Butt in your world, the players are above the coach.
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Re: Could part of it be?

Post by mathonwy »

Topper wrote:
mathonwy wrote:I'm pissed off that my team is in shambles and I know it wasn't like this before Torts came to town.
Butt in your world, the players are above the coach.
Is this what this board has come to?
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Re: Could part of it be?

Post by Lancer »

I don't think it has much to do with any alleged tamping of Torts' fire, but his tactics and system has been laid bare as dysfunctional. There is no offensive innovation - or coordination for that matter. The PP is in an absolute shambles. His overreliance on the top players has worn them out, even though Kes is making a game of it.

Frankly, I was one of the ones who welcomed his kick-ass approach to the players and his passion for coaching but his system and tactics have been just as big a reason as anything else for why the team is where it's at. I don't even think it's a matter of bringing in the players to play his system - it just won't work no matter who Gillis brings in.
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Re: Could part of it be?

Post by Island Nucklehead »

Lancer wrote:I don't think it has much to do with any alleged tamping of Torts' fire, but his tactics and system has been laid bare as dysfunctional. There is no offensive innovation - or coordination for that matter. The PP is in an absolute shambles. His overreliance on the top players has worn them out, even though Kes is making a game of it.

Frankly, I was one of the ones who welcomed his kick-ass approach to the players and his passion for coaching but his system and tactics have been just as big a reason as anything else for why the team is where it's at. I don't even think it's a matter of bringing in the players to play his system - it just won't work no matter who Gillis brings in.
Last year the PP was 22nd in the League. This year it's 25th. Do you really think Tortorella is responsible for that?

Burrows has 0 goals. The Sedins have 8 PPG combined. Daniel has as many PP goals as Garrison...

The players being sent out on the PP aren't good enough.

The PP sucks for the same reason our team sucks... we can't score, and that's not a PP problem. It's an indication our team isn't very talented.
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Re: Could part of it be?

Post by Strangelove »

mathonwy wrote: Yeah yeah yeah... I'm a drama queen... and so what. I'm pissed off that my team is in shambles and I know it wasn't like this before Torts came to town.
Well let's just put it this way... you're certainly not suffering from any emotional constipation whatsoever.

Face it, your team was in shambles before Torts came along, which is exactly why Torts came along.

A little birdie told me that Torts was brought in to blow up the clubhouse real good.

A bullet to the head of the Living Legend was absolutely necessary to that end.

Or so said birdie tells me.

Torts is an integral part of the NP (Neo-Process) and personally I'm loving the ride thus far.

If one must sacrifice a season to destroy a clubhouse then so be it.

"Shape up or ship out" is a fine motto.

Too many pussies and not enough assholes.
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Re: Could part of it be?

Post by SKYO »

Strangelove wrote: A little birdie told me that Torts was brought in to blow up the clubhouse real good.

A bullet to the head of the Living Legend was absolutely necessary to that end.

Or so said birdie tells me.

If one must sacrifice a season to destroy a clubhouse then so be it.

"Shape up or ship out" is a fine motto.

Too many pussies and not enough assholes.
And all the old leaders are gettin' shaken up real good...http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/hock ... story.html
Beyond the decommissioning of the leadership committee, here is what has happened to the leaders themselves: ... Luongo was traded last week, Kesler was buffeted by trade-deadline drama and may yet get moved after the season ...

Asked about the leadership dynamic under Tortorella, Burrows said: “It's different; I won't lie to you. I don't know if there's one (leadership model) that's better than the other one. Obviously, I think Torts has got his hands in more things than we used to have with AV. But I'm not saying it's better or worse. It's just different.”
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Re: Could part of it be?

Post by Meds »

mathonwy wrote:I'm pissed off that my team is in shambles and I know it wasn't like this before Torts came to town.
It wasn't?

2011 - DOMINATION ALL YEAR LONG. Enter the SCF and the Canucks scored what? 8 goals in 7 games?

2012 - A good year, top of the league (barely). Out in 5 to the Kings. Looked like a shell of their former selves.

2013 - Mediocre performance that resulted in a middle of the pack playoff birth. Swept in 4 by the Sharks.

2014 - Slow start. Strong December. Absolute shit since.

This team was headed to this shambles regardless of the coach behind the bench.

The blame for this team's current state of affairs is caught in limbo between the players and the GM. The players for not getting it done and playing a caliber of hockey that wouldn't cut it in the AHL, and the GM for some of the extensions he's handed out and his non-moves.
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Re: Could part of it be?

Post by Topper »

SKYO wrote:
Strangelove wrote: A little birdie told me that Torts was brought in to blow up the clubhouse real good.

A bullet to the head of the Living Legend was absolutely necessary to that end.

Or so said birdie tells me.

If one must sacrifice a season to destroy a clubhouse then so be it.

"Shape up or ship out" is a fine motto.

Too many pussies and not enough assholes.
And all the old leaders are gettin' shaken up real good...http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/hock ... story.html
Beyond the decommissioning of the leadership committee, here is what has happened to the leaders themselves: ... Luongo was traded last week, Kesler was buffeted by trade-deadline drama and may yet get moved after the season ...

Asked about the leadership dynamic under Tortorella, Burrows said: “It's different; I won't lie to you. I don't know if there's one (leadership model) that's better than the other one. Obviously, I think Torts has got his hands in more things than we used to have with AV. But I'm not saying it's better or worse. It's just different.”
I noted this back in September
The biggest change is in leadership and delegation. Torts is in control, he does not shed any of his leadership role to the core leadership in the dressing room as his predecessor did.
Again in November
As I noted before. AV delegated locker room leadership to a core group of players. Torts is the locker room leader. Hank also earlier noted that he appreciated more clearly defined roles. I am not surprised by Friendman's comments.
And in December
I mentioned after Torts was hired that the difference between he and AV would be in leadership. AV delegated that to his core group of players, Tororella is the undisputed leader.

While we have been discussing flipping a switch and whether a switch even exists, Tortorella comes into town and shows all of us the buttons that need to be pressed.
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Re: Could part of it be?

Post by mathonwy »

Strangelove wrote: Face it, your team was in shambles before Torts came along, which is exactly why Torts came along.

A little birdie told me that Torts was brought in to blow up the clubhouse real good.

A bullet to the head of the Living Legend was absolutely necessary to that end.

Or so said birdie tells me.

Torts is an integral part of the NP (Neo-Process) and personally I'm loving the ride thus far.

If one must sacrifice a season to destroy a clubhouse then so be it.

"Shape up or ship out" is a fine motto.

Too many pussies and not enough assholes.
Nah Strange.

You are deluding yourself if you feel that this is the proper way to "destroy" a clubhouse.

Now if you were advocating trading the Sedins and making a bold move a la Carter/Richards style then I might be on board. However, that's not what you're saying.

You seem to be ok with what's going on with the team and at the same time, you cheer like a wild man in the GDT expecting them to win. That's just... strange and not connected to reality.

Let's ruin our goaltending stability. Let's play a style that isn't suited to our bread and butter players. Let's put an absolute shit product on the ice. Let's piss off the local fans and so on and so on and so on...

Good for you for being able to visualize the end goal of the Canuck leadership team because I don't see it. I just see a cluster of epic fucks on the Canuck management with the running of Luo outta town being the proverbial last straw.

I get it that sometimes you gotta tear it down before you build it up, but this season has been more than just a tear down. It's been the chernobyl of meltdowns and I don't recall any other team going through such a process in the post-lockout era.

Prove me wrong please.
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Re: Could part of it be?

Post by The Brown Knight »

mathonwy wrote: Now if you were advocating trading the Sedins and making a bold move a la Carter/Richards style then I might be on board. However, that's not what you're saying.
Given their age and contract, the twins aren't going to fetch you as much as you want in my opinion.

Unless you can get Kesler to commit to being a Canuck for the long haul, moving the twins would be very risky and would force the kids in our system to play in roles that they shouldn't be playing in at this stage in their development.

In other words - if you move the twins AND you lose Kesler in two years, you risk becoming the Edmonton Oilers or Florida Panthers.

The only guy that is going to get a Richards/Carter type return is Kesler.
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