Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

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Todd Bersnoozi
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Todd Bersnoozi » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:50 pm

SKYO wrote:twitter rumours..
Are you hearing Kane to Van is almost done? Reports out of Van have a package around Hansen, Guance and Tanev going to the Jets
Hmmm.. I dunno. As much as I would luv to see Evander back in Van-city, this might have the makings of an Alex Mogilny for Peca, Wilson + Mckee(?). I know u gotta give something to get something and maybe this is going to be Gillis's first bold trade. Hansen is a great utility player for us, he can do just about everything, PP, PK, 1st-3rd line (albeit not @ elite lvl). I'd like to keep Gaunce, I think it's nice to have a big strapping young centreman coming along, but he's probably most expendible as we have BoHo and K.Lain for that position too. The guy u don't want to lose is Tanev. He's really starting to come to his own, has probably been our best D-man most nites and is the youngest guy on our D core. That speaks volumes when we have the likes of Edler, Hammer, Garrison, Juice.

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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Meds » Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:00 pm

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:
SKYO wrote:twitter rumours..
Are you hearing Kane to Van is almost done? Reports out of Van have a package around Hansen, Guance and Tanev going to the Jets
Hmmm.. I dunno. As much as I would luv to see Evander back in Van-city, this might have the makings of an Alex Mogilny for Peca, Wilson + Mckee(?). I know u gotta give something to get something and maybe this is going to be Gillis's first bold trade. Hansen is a great utility player for us, he can do just about everything, PP, PK, 1st-3rd line (albeit not @ elite lvl). I'd like to keep Gaunce, I think it's nice to have a big strapping young centreman coming along, but he's probably most expendible as we have BoHo and K.Lain for that position too. The guy u don't want to lose is Tanev. He's really starting to come to his own, has probably been our best D-man most nites and is the youngest guy on our D core. That speaks volumes when we have the likes of Edler, Hammer, Garrison, Juice.
You are on point with Tanev, but that could be one of the reasons to trade him now. He has immediate and future value. His cap hit this year is $1.5M and he is a RFA at the end of this season, considering his play, as you just said one of our best defensemen, there is no reason to think he won't be asking for something in the $3M+ range, if his play continues to be steady and showing improvement every couple of weeks, then his agent asking even something approaching $4M won't be a surprise. A deal like this is something Gillis has to pull the trigger on. Our top 6 forward group has been our achilles heel for too long, the Sedins are slowing down and having more trouble being effective against top defenders who have read the book on them. Adding a top-6 forward like Kane means that opponents will have to pick and choose, and the Sedins are still good enough to pick apart secondary defenders.

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Kane-Kesler-Kassian/Santorelli

That is a deadly top 6 (if Santo and Kas keep playing the way they are).

The bottom six would take a hit with the loss of Hansen, but not one that couldn't be covered.

Higgins-Schroeder/Richardson-Kassian/Booth
Sestito-Dalpe/Richardson-Weise/Archibald

And who knows what other tweaks Gillis can make at the deadline.

Our blueline would still be.....

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Edler-Garrison
Stanton-Corrado
Alberts
Weber
Andersson

Losing Tanev on the blueline would definitely hurt our depth, but like you said, you gotta give to get, and I don't want to see us commit another $3.5M-$4M to our blueline and not improve the top 6 forward group.

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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Lancer » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:08 pm

Looking at the discussions about this rumoured trade, one could be forgiven if they then assumed:

Tanev > Edler
:lol:

Really? Have we come to this in our estimation of 'ole Bambi?

If so, what does that say about Tanev that Torts hasn't already said?

For the record: take Tanev out, put Edler in and I'm sold - even if we are just wasting time spitballing and ruminating over some weirdo fan's cyber-fart. :D
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by RyanGinger » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:11 am

If Tanev goes (for Kane), I'd still say trade Edler (in offseason) for maybe another forward or a Dman and some picks, and sign Mark Stuart.
Wouldn't mind signing Andrew Macdonald either if we end up trading Edler for a forward.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Reefer2 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:04 am

Cornuck wrote:
dbr wrote:
SKYO wrote:lol yeah HENCE! I didn't put his name so he can get more internet fame for some bs. :D
Oh I just thought you were embarrassed to be circulating one of his rumours. ;)
The thread has 31 pages of made up shit, and you're going to call a guy out for a twitter rumour? :D
Which is why we need a fantasy page for people who dream up stupid trades.

Leave this one for trades only, rumours are 99.99% false anyways.

Twitter - I tool for people with too much time on their hands.

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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by dbr » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:46 am

Cornuck wrote:
dbr wrote:
SKYO wrote:lol yeah HENCE! I didn't put his name so he can get more internet fame for some bs. :D
Oh I just thought you were embarrassed to be circulating one of his rumours. ;)
The thread has 31 pages of made up shit, and you're going to call a guy out for a twitter rumour? :D
:lol:

Well, the stuff that was made up here is arguably worthier of discussion, because at least the person who fabricated it is here to argue about it.

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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by SKYO » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:41 am

I'd give up Tanev++ easy for Kane.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Meds » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:48 am

Lancer wrote:Looking at the discussions about this rumoured trade, one could be forgiven if they then assumed:

Tanev > Edler
:lol:

Really? Have we come to this in our estimation of 'ole Bambi?

If so, what does that say about Tanev that Torts hasn't already said?

For the record: take Tanev out, put Edler in and I'm sold - even if we are just wasting time spitballing and ruminating over some weirdo fan's cyber-fart. :D
I'm even more on board with that. The reality is that Edler is probably not going to waive his NTC to go to Winterpeg, so it becomes a game of cap management and contracts.

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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Meds » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:43 am

For once I think I agree with something Eklund said.....
This from two reliable sources (one in Winnipeg and one NHL). The Jets are looking for a ton back, but as my sources said,"They will get it. I would be absolutely shocked if Kane stayed a Jet.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post ... ogger_id=1
Someone will pay through the nose for Kane, and Evander's contract contains no clauses that give him any kind of say in where he goes.

Gillis on TEAM 1040.....
“We don’t like doing that [getting a rental player], we’ve done it in the past, it hasn’t worked. We like players we think we can sign and keep that are going to be a long-term solution, not a short-term solution. Fitting those guys into your team in a meaningful way with three or four weeks left in the season is really difficult to do.”
Kane is not a rental, obviously, and I think he has the potential to the piece that puts our team over that hump and back into the top 5 in the league. So I say, overpay.

I would give up Tanev + Hansen + Booth + Gaunce or Jensen + 1st(2014) + 2nd(2015) + 3rd(tbd) for Kane + Stuart or Pardy + 3rd(2015).

I know it looks like massive over-payment, but it is BOLD, it sends a message that we are through dicking around with little tweaks here and there. It says, we recognize that we don't have the pieces we need to be competitive with the top dogs. So we'll do what it takes. This tells the players still here that Gillis is dead fucking serious about results.

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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by SKYO » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:13 pm

Yeah it sounds like if MG is gonna add a different player to the group it won't be at the deadline. (thank goodness!)
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Vpete » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:45 pm

The problem with talking about rumours is it makes most people look fucking stupid.

As the local Winnipeg boy here (transplant) Kane is the last guy the Jets will trade unless Chevy catches some one drinking hard during the Olympic break. Like Jim Lahey shithurricane drunk.

For the Canucks to get Kane they have to give up salary to fit him in. It starts with Horvat and gets worse for Vancouver, or at least it should if Chevy knows a damn thing. Why trade a 22 year old when you have emerging youth in a 19 year old and another 20 year old? That's the age gape you want.

What about Byfuglien? Think Torts could handle him- think he could manage his game. He is a RH D and that's in short supply in Vancouver and he is affordable with 2 more years on his deal.

I also don't think the Canucks would send Kane to the West. It would be a dumb move to have to have him beating you up again and again.
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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Meds » Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:07 pm

Vpete wrote:The problem with talking about rumours is it makes most people look fucking stupid.

As the local Winnipeg boy here (transplant) Kane is the last guy the Jets will trade unless Chevy catches some one drinking hard during the Olympic break. Like Jim Lahey shithurricane drunk.

For the Canucks to get Kane they have to give up salary to fit him in. It starts with Horvat and gets worse for Vancouver, or at least it should if Chevy knows a damn thing. Why trade a 22 year old when you have emerging youth in a 19 year old and another 20 year old? That's the age gape you want.

What about Byfuglien? Think Torts could handle him- think he could manage his game. He is a RH D and that's in short supply in Vancouver and he is affordable with 2 more years on his deal.

I also don't think the Canucks would send Kane to the West. It would be a dumb move to have to have him beating you up again and again.
The Jets won't need Horvat coming back from Vancouver in a trade involving Kane. Yes, I'm sure they'd like him just like every GM in the league would, but does he address their needs? Not exclusively.

Look at the Jets and where they are in the standings, and then look at a couple of telling stats. They currently sit 11th in the league in goals scored, pretty decent actually, there are some very competitive teams around that GF bracket. But they are 27th in the league in goals against. Only the Islanders, Oilers, and Senators sit below them. The Jets differential is -14. That's not bad really, all things considered. They've played 46 games and are 19-22-5. I wonder if getting that differential under control moves a a handful of games across to the W column.....Winnipeg's problem is that they can't keep pucks out of their own net. Guys like Tanev and Hansen are the type of defensively responsible players that can turn a differential like that around for a team like Winnipeg. They both address team needs. If Winnipeg even was able to reverse the 22 and 19 and even add a couple of OTL points that they've missed by giving up just one too many goals, they would be in the playoff picture and potentially chasing the Canucks right now. Just sayin' is all.

The Jets also have piles of cap space to play with next year, so taking on a bit of salary isn't going to kill them.

As far as what Kane brings to a team, that is what Vancouver needs. What Tanev and Hansen bring, that is what Winnipeg needs. Obviously there is still a disparity involved, and that's why the Canucks would have to sweeten the deal considerably. Throwing in Gaunce or Jensen and a 1st and 2nd does that. Booth is a chance for them to eat some salary for us, but also to offset the loss of a hard skating forward who goes to the net.....but he's a reclamation project at this point.

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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Todd Bersnoozi » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:19 pm

A few thoughts about this deal. :lol:

a) Evander is about a 30G scorer currently and Hansen is roughly a 20G guy. That's alot to give up for an extra 10 goals. If MG is doing this deal, he'd better be positive that Evander will become a 40+G guy.
b) Tanev: he's looking really good for a young player. He's scoring goals, something I didn't think he had in his game. If u think he's going to get better and become a #1-#2 D-man, I really think we should try to keep him. If he has plateaued, then it might be OK to move him. The wild card is Corrado. Who do u think will be better in the next few years? Corrado vs Tanev. Hard to say, I say keep the guy who u think will become the better player.
c) Gaunce: I like having this big young center coming along. I think I'd rather offer the Jets Shinkaruk or a 1st rounder. :D

I'd luv to see E.Kane here, but not sure I really want to overpay for him. I'm more comfortable with a deal like: Hansen, Corrado and (Shinkaruk or a 1st rounder) for Evander. Not sure if it's enuff, but something more within my comfort lvl.

Vpete wrote:What about Byfuglien? Think Torts could handle him- think he could manage his game. He is a RH D and that's in short supply in Vancouver and he is affordable with 2 more years on his deal.
Now Buffy, that's a guy I would overpay for. :P

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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by dbr » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:32 pm

Meds wrote:The Jets won't need Horvat coming back from Vancouver in a trade involving Kane. Yes, I'm sure they'd like him just like every GM in the league would, but does he address their needs? Not exclusively.
Well that's a tall order.. the Jets are going to ask for a guy who addresses every one of their needs (which I assume you mean, rather than literally interpreting this to mean they want a guy who addresses only their needs and nobody else's)?

I think you could pretty easily make a case that Horvat fits their various needs best of anyone the Canucks are going to give up, the Sedins and Kesler aren't going anywhere.
Look at the Jets and where they are in the standings, and then look at a couple of telling stats.

*snip*

they are 27th in the league in goals against.

*snip*

Winnipeg's problem is that they can't keep pucks out of their own net. Guys like Tanev and Hansen are the type of defensively responsible players that can turn a differential like that around for a team like Winnipeg. They both address team needs.
Why wouldn't Horvat? The kid is a pretty safe bet to be a two-way force in the NHL in time, and much more importantly is a centre who will have a bigger impact on the game due to his position than a guy like Hansen will. Who do the Jets have down the middle.. Bryan Little? Where's Olli Jokinen next year? Think they ever get Burmistrov back? Who's left?

I am guessing the Jets know that if they trade Kane for a Dion Phaneuf, Joe Thornton type of return (ie. a bunch of decent players nowhere near the calibre of the one they give up) they are going to regret it sooner than later. A young player like Bo Horvat is a piece you can build around, Chris Tanev might be that also but not nearly to the same extent nevermind a player like Hansen.
The Jets also have piles of cap space to play with next year, so taking on a bit of salary isn't going to kill them.
Even when a $70-80m cap ceiling was a pipe dream it was known the Jets would never be a cap ceiling team. Piles of cap space mean sweet fuck all to them.

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Re: Trades and rumours (& fantasies) 2013-14

Post by Vpete » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:55 pm

dbr you are on the money.

Why give up a 30 goal guy for a 20 goal guy and another player who may or may not be what you need? Meds you make a point but you trade a top 6 or potential top 3 guy for depth help?

The best GMs build the top and find the depth and bring it in. If you think the Jets are really that close to being a positive goal differential team why not get a better goalie? Or keep your talent and focus solely on the bottom 6.

You trade Kane you need something huge coming back the other way. It's that simple Horvat plus.
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