From Bountiful to Ponoka

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JelloPuddingPop
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by JelloPuddingPop »

Topper wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:33 pm Kadri will cost another first in four years time.

Flames have made a massive culture shift in their locker room with those shipped out and those added.
In which direction do you think it shifted?

Switching up the Jonathans seems like a move in the positive direction in culture - but I don't know much about Johnny 2.0's character really.

Kadri and Keith's kid seem like the same type of character to me. Again, not sure though, one is a bit older (possibly mature?) than the other.

What about losing Gudbranson, and getting Weegar? Is just getting more skilled on the back end an upgrade in culture you think? Guys happier they are going to be better? Again, I don't know anything about Weegar - but Gudbranson always seems liked by his teammates etc.
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by UWSaint »

Kadri's a good player. Until last season's point explosion, from a productivity standpoint, he's like Bo Horvat. But he's crazier than Bo, perhaps a better playmaker, but fairly similar value overall.

Oh, and he's four years older.

Kadri's season last year is a unicorn -- you just don't see guys have a standard deviation level jump in a single season at age 31 -- an age where the vast majority of players are in or are starting their decline. I think the best *reasonable* scenario is that Kadri will have a couple/few years at the "Horvat" level of productivity. To the extent its better because he's with Huberdeau instead of the Colorado second line, one might see a direct tradeoff in that increased productivity with a decrease in Lindholm's productivity. I do think the chances of Kadri having a delayed decline are better than Monahan's chances of a bounce back (the nature of Monohan's injuries make him more likely to be toast than a first or quality second line center), but there's a chance Kadri falls to below Horvatty soon (like next year -- pretend its a normal curve and last year was just a total blip) and Calgary is already writing off the back half of the contract in this deal. Seems very high risk to me.
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Meds »

Madcombinepilot wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:36 pm Am I the only one who thinks they got better because they are simply up a Weegar at the end of the day?
No, you're not the only one who thinks that.
Uberdough and Kadri are about the same as Jonny and Tpuke… they just cost more.
They are up a Weegar and down a first, and got older in a hurry.
I disagree. Huberdeau is a replacement for Gaudreau. Kadri does not replace Tkachuk in any way other than being a pain in the ass.....however Kadri has a track record of hurting his own team far more than Tkachuk has. Everyone thinks Kadri is this locked and loaded 1B center, he's never been that except for one contract year that came at just the right time for him. He won't be benefiting from having strong puck rushing blueliners who can orchestrate the back end of an offense. He won't be playing with the same level of forward talent (unless Huberdeau ends up on his wing instead of Lindholm's).

They didn't break even up front, they took a step back imho.....and it cost them a 1st rounder to do it.

Weegar is a great add for Calgary and the only reason thy won that trade with Florida. However, he hasn't signed an extension yet, he's 29 next year, and if he's watching closely he might see what everyone here sees, the Flames need to win in the next year or two before the window slams shut.....he might want to go somewhere else at this point if they get bounced in the first couple rounds.
That ‘window’ ain’t 3-4 years. It’s next. They get bounced in the first or tune Sutter out.. window closed.

Sure they made moves, and did pretty good all things considered.. but they are only improving by a 2nd pairing defenceman.
Moves are shiny, but thise contracts will haunt them.
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Strangelove »

Madcombinepilot wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:36 pm
They are up a Weegar and down a first, and got older in a hurry.
Mëds wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:24 am They didn't break even up front, they took a step back imho.....and it cost them a 1st rounder to do it.
Are people forgetting Calgary obtained a first round pick as part if the Huberdeau trade?
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

I’d say the Flames have a two to three year window. But that 17.5 million to Huberdeau and Naz the Spazz will not look too fancy come 2025. May as well go all in. They should be able to extend Weegar with Lucic coming off the books after this year. Who knows maybe they move a D man to bring in a top 6 forward. I have them as a better team than the one that finished the year. The question is…. How much better?
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Arbour »

Mëds wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:24 am
Madcombinepilot wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:36 pm Am I the only one who thinks they got better because they are simply up a Weegar at the end of the day?
No, you're not the only one who thinks that.
Uberdough and Kadri are about the same as Jonny and Tpuke… they just cost more.
They are up a Weegar and down a first, and got older in a hurry.
I disagree. Huberdeau is a replacement for Gaudreau. Kadri does not replace Tkachuk in any way other than being a pain in the ass.....however Kadri has a track record of hurting his own team far more than Tkachuk has. Everyone thinks Kadri is this locked and loaded 1B center, he's never been that except for one contract year that came at just the right time for him. He won't be benefiting from having strong puck rushing blueliners who can orchestrate the back end of an offense. He won't be playing with the same level of forward talent (unless Huberdeau ends up on his wing instead of Lindholm's).

They didn't break even up front, they took a step back imho.....and it cost them a 1st rounder to do it.

Weegar is a great add for Calgary and the only reason thy won that trade with Florida. However, he hasn't signed an extension yet, he's 29 next year, and if he's watching closely he might see what everyone here sees, the Flames need to win in the next year or two before the window slams shut.....he might want to go somewhere else at this point if they get bounced in the first couple rounds.
That ‘window’ ain’t 3-4 years. It’s next. They get bounced in the first or tune Sutter out.. window closed.

Sure they made moves, and did pretty good all things considered.. but they are only improving by a 2nd pairing defenceman.
Moves are shiny, but thise contracts will haunt them.
Bang on MCP.
This above. After seeing Gaudreau walk for nothing Treliving was on the hot seat with the pending departure of Tkachuk, he needed more the Huberdeau and Weegar ergo Kadri.
UWSaint wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:39 am Kadri's season last year is a unicorn -- you just don't see guys have a standard deviation level jump in a single season at age 31 -- an age where the vast majority of players are in or are starting their decline.
Kadri had an exceptional year on a Stanely Cup team, it would have been more impressive had he been playing for Arizona without the benefit of the things outlined above. It's possible he could up his game but I doubt he replaces Tkachuk on the stat sheet.

It's do or die next year for Calgary and then what? The chances of beating Colorado in the playoffs are pretty slim, I see Huberdeau and Johnny as somewhat of a saw off, neither being a complete player. This team got older not not necessarily better.
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Strangelove »

Blob Mckenzie wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:34 pm They should be able to extend Weegar with Lucic coming off the books after this year.
Yeahno, Lucic coming off the books will pay for Huberdeau's raise.

If they extend Weegar, I figure they'll need to move out one of Tanev/Zadorov in one year.
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Strangelove »

Strangelove wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:19 pm
Madcombinepilot wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:36 pm
They are up a Weegar and down a first, and got older in a hurry.
Mëds wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:24 am They didn't break even up front, they took a step back imho.....and it cost them a 1st rounder to do it.
Are people forgetting Calgary obtained a first round pick as part if the Huberdeau trade?
Now that I think about it, the Flames are actually UP a 1st rounder with the dust having settled.

See, to re-sign Tkachuk + Johnny, they still would have had to move Monahan, attaching a 1st.
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Blob Mckenzie »

Strangelove wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 2:58 pm
Blob Mckenzie wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:34 pm They should be able to extend Weegar with Lucic coming off the books after this year.
Yeahno, Lucic coming off the books will pay for Huberdeau's raise.

If they extend Weegar, I figure they'll need to move out one of Tanev/Zadorov in one year.
Yeah they seem to be tight to the cap. They could move out Zadorov and Dube, let Milan’s contract expire. It’s a 2 - 3 year window. Hopefully they win fuck all
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Topper »

JelloPuddingPop wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:18 am
Topper wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 7:33 pm Kadri will cost another first in four years time.

Flames have made a massive culture shift in their locker room with those shipped out and those added.
In which direction do you think it shifted?

Switching up the Jonathans seems like a move in the positive direction in culture - but I don't know much about Johnny 2.0's character really.

Kadri and Keith's kid seem like the same type of character to me. Again, not sure though, one is a bit older (possibly mature?) than the other.

What about losing Gudbranson, and getting Weegar? Is just getting more skilled on the back end an upgrade in culture you think? Guys happier they are going to be better? Again, I don't know anything about Weegar - but Gudbranson always seems liked by his teammates etc.
For the better. I see a sharper focus on the task at hand and a less selfish and more mature overall attitude.

Kadri's contract is to the Flames what OEL's contract is to the Canucks.
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Meds »

Strangelove wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 12:19 pm
Madcombinepilot wrote: Thu Aug 18, 2022 6:36 pm
They are up a Weegar and down a first, and got older in a hurry.
Mëds wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:24 am They didn't break even up front, they took a step back imho.....and it cost them a 1st rounder to do it.
Are people forgetting Calgary obtained a first round pick as part if the Huberdeau trade?
Actually I had forgotten that :look:
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Carl Yagro »

Wow, go on a break and come back to find Bountiful just got more bountiful.

Verrry Interesting....
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

Carl Yagro wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:12 pm Wow, go on a break and come back to find Bountiful just got more bountiful.

Verrry Interesting....
Lames fans:

"we just added Stanley Cup champion Nazem Kadri for 7 x 7...the cup is ours"

The rest of the world:

:lol:
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Carl Yagro »

Cousin Strawberry wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:59 pm Lames fans:

"we just added Stanley Cup champion Nazem Kadri for 7 x 7...the cup is ours"

The rest of the world:

:lol:
Nucks fans:

We can't re-sign 30yo Miller to anything with term or AAV... nothing more than $8M or for more than 4 years. Even though he's been our #1 player for the last 3 seasons (yes, even when Brock led the team in scoring).

The rest of the league:

Do these idjiots know what market value means and what agents do for a living?
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Re: From Bountiful to Ponoka

Post by Cousin Strawberry »

An 8 year contract signed today is tomorrows' GMs headache anyway...not sure why the angst either
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