Offseason grades so far

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Nuckertuzzi
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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by Nuckertuzzi » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:05 am

Strangelove wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:35 pm
You've been pissing and moaning about all the spending this off-season, is it your money? :D
Wrong, so wrong. Read my earlier posts stating how I 'like' the Myers spending and love the Benn and Ferland signings.

Only "pissing and moaning" was about blowing a 1st and 3rd on what I view as a bad trade because a non-playoff/rebuilding team should never ever be giving away those kinds of assets unless they're getting young building blocks in return..and being stuck with too many bad contracts as a result of PAST spending blunders.

May've been a little lukewarm on Myers at worse (though approve), but have not complained once about any of the signings this off-season. I'll forgive you for being old but at least try to get it right next time.


....... oh, and while it isn't my money, we may find out sooner than later how bad spending (past) has consequences by way of sweeteners to get out of them (Leaf's already good example, though they're a team who could afford). Worth complaining about? I think so.
Last edited by Nuckertuzzi on Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:43 am, edited 3 times in total.

Nuckertuzzi
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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by Nuckertuzzi » Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:17 am

Meds wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:18 pm
Josi (2)
Letang (3)
Subban (2)
Klingberg (5)
Byfuglien (8)
Barrie (3)
Giordano (undrafted)
Krug (undrafted)
Yandle (4)
Weber (2)
Ekholm (4)
Edler (3)
Parayko (3)
Keith (2)
Chara (3)
Lidstrom (3)
Blake (4)
Howe (2)
Foote (2)
Faulk (4)

I get your point, I'm well aware of later round steals, my point is the best crack at landing them is by holding on to and accumulating more draft picks to increase your chances. While you can find that gem in later rounds, fact remains the odds are far greater from the 1st and we lost two big opportunities coming drafts for not that impressive a return. Look at those (3)'s on your list, wouldn't it be nice if our 3rd next draft could turn into any one them...oh wait....

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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by micky107 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 1:39 am

Nuckertuzzi wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:46 pm
Hockey Widow wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:14 am
What I do like is that almost everyone seems to be on board with making the playoffs, no tanking, because that mentality could lead to Tampa getting a good pick. So in that sense ya, we should all be pushing for the playoffs.

While I applaud the full on effort to get back into the playoffs this year, mostly borne of GM saving his job, I'm not sure I'm on board yet and feel like I'm caught in the middle. I want to be on board and I like the moves for the most part, this is a very different team for sure when you visualize the lineup, but my problem is I'm more of a big picture guy and I just don't see the improvements equating to what I want us to ultimately focus on and that is to be a perennial Cup contender. What JB has done is open a 2-4 year window of sneaking into the playoffs, but does anybody see them as anything more than that? My big fear is becoming one of those middling teams that's just good enough to tease the playoffs and get in from time to time only to spin its wheels for years never getting over the hump (think Panthers, Flyers, Wild, Jackets, to name a few).

My bigger picture thinking has us needing a few more years of picking high to add to the nice core we're building with our big 4 of Bo, Pete, Brock, & Quinn. We cannot waste this era, and I think we're still 2 or 3 more big pieces away. Pod could be one of them or he may not be anything..the idea is to maximize your chances with high picks and not toss them away for small-picture solutions. So I am torn. Would hate to waste the efforts this summer but I still need us to draft high sooner than later and the best way there is to miss and retain the lottery pick this year, especially in what people are saying about one of the best drafts in years.
FFS ! Stagnation is not only ugly to look at, it normally reeks as well. The Canuck franchise is in need of a return to playoff hockey.
As a matter of fact, it's about the only way to return to a reasonable level of sanity>>>>>>>>>>everywhere, yikes.

>>>>Apropos !!
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The Brown Wizard
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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by The Brown Wizard » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:18 am

Nuckertuzzi wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:05 am
Strangelove wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:35 pm
You've been pissing and moaning about all the spending this off-season, is it your money? :D
Wrong, so wrong. Read my earlier posts stating how I 'like' the Myers spending and love the Benn and Ferland signings.

Only "pissing and moaning" was about blowing a 1st and 3rd on what I view as a bad trade because a non-playoff/rebuilding team should never ever be giving away those kinds of assets unless they're getting young building blocks in return..and being stuck with too many bad contracts as a result of PAST spending blunders.

May've been a little lukewarm on Myers at worse (though approve), but have not complained once about any of the signings this off-season. I'll forgive you for being old but at least try to get it right next time.


....... oh, and while it isn't my money, we may find out sooner than later how bad spending (past) has consequences by way of sweeteners to get out of them (Leaf's already good example, though they're a team who could afford). Worth complaining about? I think so.
I think Benning should be commended for having the balls to recognize that its go time right now and following through with the plan to kick in the overdrive and go for it. There yas to be a line in the sand where you move on from building and start the drive.

How many GMs have we seen in van (and elsewhere for that matter) who never gain the courage to do what Jimbob is doing right now. Its bold, its ballsy and its going down right now. Love it.

We have an emerging elite 100 pt centre. We have a superstar sniper about to take off. We have a dynamic, crazy legs dman who has that elite level of skill needed to dominate.

All 3 of these are where Jimmy is gambling...not the signings. Those are to compliment the real core.
Witchcraft... Oh, but it IS. A dark and terrible magic...

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Doyle Hargraves
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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by Doyle Hargraves » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:39 am

Does Benning have balls or a gun pointed at his head? He went all in this year. I don’t think he makes the Miller trade if he isn’t in the last year of his contract
“ROR IS OVERRATED, MACKINNON IS A BUM, TAVARES IS DONE”

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Chef Boi RD
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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by Chef Boi RD » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:57 am

Miller trade is a brilliant trade. Speedy, big, gritty versatile player can play centre or wings in all situations, only 26 years old and on a great contract. He’s guaranteed, the 2020 lottery protected first? Not guaranteed, Blobbee still wants to tank. Vancouver is done with tanking. Tanks are what you put Oil. We no oil tanker. Blob is a raging homosexual
"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate

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Doyle Hargraves
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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by Doyle Hargraves » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:59 am

RoyalDude wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:57 am
Miller trade is a brilliant trade. Speedy, big, gritty versatile player can play centre or wings in all situations, only 26 years old and on a great contract. He’s guaranteed, the 2020 lottery protected first? Not guaranteed, Blobbee still wants to tank. Vancouver is done with tanking. Tanks are what you put Oil. We no oil tanker. Blob is a raging homosexual
Nice post.
“ROR IS OVERRATED, MACKINNON IS A BUM, TAVARES IS DONE”

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Chef Boi RD
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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by Chef Boi RD » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:06 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:59 am
RoyalDude wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:57 am
Miller trade is a brilliant trade. Speedy, big, gritty versatile player can play centre or wings in all situations, only 26 years old and on a great contract. He’s guaranteed, the 2020 lottery protected first? Not guaranteed, Blobbee still wants to tank. Vancouver is done with tanking. Tanks are what you put Oil. We no oil tanker. Blob is a raging homosexual
Nice post.
Thank you

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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by dangler » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:38 am

I'll give Jimbro credit, the window for the teams success is obviously open now.
He identified the deficiencies and seems to have addressed them.
He just needs to shed some dead weight and his job is done.
It will be up to the players and coach to deliver after that.
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Doyle Hargraves
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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by Doyle Hargraves » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:47 am

dangler wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:38 am
I'll give Jimbro credit, the window for the teams success is obviously open now.
He identified the deficiencies and seems to have addressed them.
He just needs to shed some dead weight and his job is done.
It will be up to the players and coach to deliver after that.
I’m not sure any job is done. He has had a good summer. They actually have a punchers chance at a playoff spot.
“ROR IS OVERRATED, MACKINNON IS A BUM, TAVARES IS DONE”

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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by ESQ » Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:48 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:39 am
Does Benning have balls or a gun pointed at his head? He went all in this year. I don’t think he makes the Miller trade if he isn’t in the last year of his contract
I don't really see this as going "all-in" - one hockey trade for a top-6 forward cost one 1st, and 3 UFA signings to reasonable term and salary.

All-in to me is burning picks on rentals at the TDD, getting 5 more years of Miller doesn't really qualify IMO.

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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by rikster » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:28 am

Nuckertuzzi wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:05 am
Strangelove wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:35 pm
You've been pissing and moaning about all the spending this off-season, is it your money? :D
Wrong, so wrong. Read my earlier posts stating how I 'like' the Myers spending and love the Benn and Ferland signings.

Only "pissing and moaning" was about blowing a 1st and 3rd on what I view as a bad trade because a non-playoff/rebuilding team should never ever be giving away those kinds of assets unless they're getting young building blocks in return..and being stuck with too many bad contracts as a result of PAST spending blunders.

May've been a little lukewarm on Myers at worse (though approve), but have not complained once about any of the signings this off-season. I'll forgive you for being old but at least try to get it right next time.


....... oh, and while it isn't my money, we may find out sooner than later how bad spending (past) has consequences by way of sweeteners to get out of them (Leaf's already good example, though they're a team who could afford). Worth complaining about? I think so.
With due respect, it sounds like you don't know what you want and want to complain for the sake of complaining...

From the bolded part, this is one of my biggest pet peeves with some fans....making absolute statements that aren't grounded in reality or an understanding of history and being too lazy to provide content to prove your supposed statements of fact...

Google is your friend...

Take care...

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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by Reefer2 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:01 am

rikster wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:28 am
Nuckertuzzi wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:05 am
Strangelove wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:35 pm
You've been pissing and moaning about all the spending this off-season, is it your money? :D
Wrong, so wrong. Read my earlier posts stating how I 'like' the Myers spending and love the Benn and Ferland signings.

Only "pissing and moaning" was about blowing a 1st and 3rd on what I view as a bad trade because a non-playoff/rebuilding team should never ever be giving away those kinds of assets unless they're getting young building blocks in return..and being stuck with too many bad contracts as a result of PAST spending blunders.

May've been a little lukewarm on Myers at worse (though approve), but have not complained once about any of the signings this off-season. I'll forgive you for being old but at least try to get it right next time.


....... oh, and while it isn't my money, we may find out sooner than later how bad spending (past) has consequences by way of sweeteners to get out of them (Leaf's already good example, though they're a team who could afford). Worth complaining about? I think so.
With due respect, it sounds like you don't know what you want and want to complain for the sake of complaining...

From the bolded part, this is one of my biggest pet peeves with some fans....making absolute statements that aren't grounded in reality or an understanding of history and being too lazy to provide content to prove your supposed statements of fact...

Google is your friend...

Take care...
With all due respect you come off many time as an arrogant SOB.

Posters can have a different opinion.

Take care....

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UWSaint
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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by UWSaint » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:10 am

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:39 am
Does Benning have balls or a gun pointed at his head? He went all in this year. I don’t think he makes the Miller trade if he isn’t in the last year of his contract
That question is trivial (what's Benning's motivation). The claim "he went all in" is one I agree with. You have this pocket of cap space only once -- it wasn't used last year because there were so many questions about the team; a reasonable argument can be made that it should have been used next year. (Next time there is cap space in significant #s coming off due to contracts, the priority will be bridge or more deals with Pettersson and (assuming he plays well) Hughes).

That's the non-trivial question -- was the decision to go all in this offseason the right one? I don't care if Benning was motivated by internal machismo, fear, or consulted an astrologist.

Then the second non-trivial question is whether in choosing this approach, he chose wisely as to the players acquired and the terms of their acquisition.

There is a necessary precondition to answering the first question affirmatively. The team must have enough in place to make going all in have a reasonable potential of return. Rebuilding teams are rarely going to know for certain that it is the time, and there is doubt here. But if you don't rip off the bandaid, you become Arizona (who still managed to creep up to the cap without ever making a go-for-it move). And here, the Canucks have a superstar in the making, a sniper to support the superstar, a quality second line center, and something better than an absolute mess in goal. They were badly lacking defensive personnel and somewhat lacking scorers. The second part of that "all in" question is whether there were players available to address those needs. The answer, once Edler was resigned, was "yes." Were they good enough is a closer question, but the Canucks happen to be in a division that isn't all that, so the bar isn't as high as it might be. And was the market right? Absolutely; there was a good supply of players (both UFAs and trade opportunities), the salary cap didn't go up like it was anticipated (which trimmed the number of buyers and increased the number of teams looking to trade out talent), and this made market conditions as good as they could reasonably be expected to be for a move.

Moving to the second question, did Benning choose wisely as to the players acquired? Every move was a reasonable one viewed in isolation, filling the right needs with good players, but in accumulation, I'm not convinced it is the right strategy.

The D moves were terrific if the question is are they better today. Myers was the best FA available for the Canucks' needs. The price was high, but not outrageous. Benn was a very reasonable move -- the best player available at that price point. Myers + Benn + Hughes is > Gudbrandson + Hutton + Pouliot and it isn't even close. My only concern is that to get to cup contender status, the Canucks need a different level of all around talent, a true #1. I doubt Hughes will be that player; but my concern is mediated by the fact that true #1s are typically grown, not acquired, because they are rarely on the market. That need wasn't solvable this offseason, and there is no guarantee it would be next season.

As for the offense, the moves were Ferland and Miller. I like both of these players; Miller more (his salary is higher and there is a good reason for that -- the speed is +++ and the skill is +; Ferland brings a playoff style game, but isn't nearly the same talent). And yet it wouldn't surprise me if they are only a marginal upgrade in terms of puck in the net. They are current upgrades, but they are still complimentary-of-the-core players. I think having ice time gaps (who is going to fill this?) is okay when there are numerous contenders. Unlike most here, I think Baertschi (if healthy), Gaudette, and Goldobin all have a reasonable chance to step up their games to be a decent second liners in the NHL given the opportunity, the kind of second liners that playoff teams have (for Baertschi, it isn't even a question of stepping up, its being healthy. He's a 45-50 point guy who isn't a disaster without the puck without improving his game). A reasonable chance might be 33% each -- which works out to about a 70% chance that one of them will. (These guys don't have perfectly equal chances, maybe Virtanen has a chance, and you have to hedge against Pearson regressing -- the point is that if you take an 85% chance plan in free agency, the marginal improvement isn't what you think unless you've already written off the rest of the group).

So overall, I am curious about next season. I think the modest goal of making the playoffs is in reach, and without these moves, the chances would have been far less. As a fan, that's exciting -- new players, more competitive, more reasons to watch. But the overall approach of filling a roster of $3.5 million --> $6 million players who have likely reached their peak (Canucks added 4 guys in this range if you count retaining Edler) isn't the ideal approach, from my perspective. I know that these things weren't necessarily options, but in the abstract, having Stone and a $1M Goldobin is better than having Miller and Ferland; having Karlsson and Biega as a 6 is better than having Myers and Edler. And I can't help but thinking that if you are going all in, truly swinging for the fences might have been the way to go. You know, fuck the second line, let's see Panarin with Pettersson and Boeser kind of thing and let's just add one D who will get top 4 minutes.
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Re: Offseason grades so far

Post by micky107 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:20 am

Nuckertuzzi wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:05 am

Only "pissing and moaning" was about blowing a 1st and 3rd on what I view as a bad trade because a non-playoff/rebuilding team should never ever be giving away those kinds of assets unless they're getting young building blocks in return..and being stuck with too many bad contracts as a result of PAST spending blunders.
Stating something as fact when it is unknown, ie ; non playoff, is the part of this paragraph which renders the meaning
of the whole paragraph incorrect.
Yes, there are, currently, 3 nasty contracts on the books. The one most notable is receiving the ugly press and public disdain it deserves.
I personally help that cause in any and all ways I can.

At some point, "The Rebuild" is for the most part, done, and playoffs are an absolute goal for the present.
Retooling, should be a consideration, always.
"evolution"

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